Configuration a Nightmare

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Author	Message
Ric Landers	Wednesday 30 April 2003 1:30:51 am Site Access configuration is far too confusing for an application that bills itself as easy. I've viewed this section in the manual and it simply isn't explained in a manner that steps me through the process. The writing is convoluted, sentences run on with no commas; it's hard to tell whether you're being told to do one thing or three. Moreover, directing a new user to a config file is not something new users want. I simply don't follow the instructions about DNS, web servers, pointing, etc -- and I really don't want to know about all that stuff. I just want to start using the content management module. Break things down step by step and maybe I'll understand. But when you combine five steps in one sentence, I get confused. Right now, I can't do a thing with this application. It installed beautifully, but I don't know how to configure it and the manual doesn't help at all. Ric
Tony Wood	Wednesday 30 April 2003 1:55:56 am Ric, Try looking here http://ez.no/developer/ez_publish_3/documentation/ez_publish_3 it contains user contributed faq's howtos etc Tony Tony Wood : twitter.com/tonywood Vision with Technology Experts in eZ Publish consulting & development Power to the Editor! Free eZ Training : http://www.VisionWT.com/training eZ Future Podcast : http://www.VisionWT.com/eZ-Future
Ric Landers	Wednesday 30 April 2003 6:09:36 am Hhahaha... I'm at one of the help pages right now. Mind you all I want to do is use the article manager, see how it works. Well, in order to do that, the first two paragraphs introduce me to these concepts I must learn first: Site Access Settings Port Access Settings Static Match Match Order Variable Matching with Element Match Order host Index Insane! Who other than a geek would want to learn this stuff. I could care less about 'Match Order Variabe' I just want to post an article. This is not what I call user friendly. User friendly is 'do this and do that -- presto! You're up and running. Ric
Tony Wood	Wednesday 30 April 2003 6:32:55 am Try looking at http://admindemo.ezpublish.no/ userid 'admin' password 'publish' and http://demo.ezpublish.no/. This should give you an idea about how it works without setting it up yourself. Good luck Tony Tony Wood : twitter.com/tonywood Vision with Technology Experts in eZ Publish consulting & development Power to the Editor! Free eZ Training : http://www.VisionWT.com/training eZ Future Podcast : http://www.VisionWT.com/eZ-Future
Karsten Jennissen	Wednesday 30 April 2003 7:20:36 am Hi Rick, I agree that the siteaccess and other configuration issues are confusing at first. That's what why your feedback is important. But keep in mind that this is the first release of a free product. Don't expect perfect information, documentation and complete ease of use. Saying that the provided docs are all bullsh.... doesn't help either. We (the users) are helping in creating documentation, but that takes time. The quickest and easiest way to set up site access is via the "map" method. There you specify the server name and the corresponding site. Example: [SiteAccessSettings] MatchOrder=host HostMatchType=map HostMatchMapItems[]=domain1.net;www HostMatchMapItems[]=www.domain1.net;www HostMatchMapItems[]=admin.domain1.net;admin HostMatchMapItems[]=www.domain2.com;domain2 This means that http://domain1.net and http://www.domain1.net go to site www, the settings for which can be found in /settings/siteaccess/www/... The same goes for the other specs. Other than that, take a look at the how-tos in the community contributed docs. If you learn to do it, writing your own how-to would be really appreciated. Regards, Karsten P.S.: to learn how to post an article, you do not need to learn setting up siteaccess. Just install the demo data and start from there.
Ric Landers	Wednesday 30 April 2003 8:07:02 am Kristin: Thanks for the quick response. Okay, lets take this slow. First, I have zero functionality with this product right now. When I first started it the demo kicked in and I saw all those wonderful sites; now I have nothing, but messages telling me "object unavailable" when I try to invoke each module. This is confusing. I shouldn't have to figure the why and wherefor of this my first time using the program. I hate that. So, I go to the tutorials and "how-tos" looking for a way to get the demo working again. I don't find this. What I find is a lot of discussion about things I don't understand or really want to understand. All I want to do is get the demo back so I can play around with the app to see what it can do. I don't want to start appending files and stuff; I hate that. And worst still is how every tutorial and "how-to" assumes the reader knows exactly what he wants to do. I don't. Let's consider your latest explanation to see what I'm talking about . . . ##################################### We (the users) are helping in creating documentation, but that takes time. The quickest and easiest way to set up site access is via the "map" method. There you specify the server name and the corresponding site. (but you still haven't explained what "site access" is and why I should want it. Moreover, why should I have to make this decision right out of the gate? Something is wrong here. You fellows are putting the cart in front of the horse. I want to play with this application before I go fiddling around in the directory. Moreover, I really don't want to know what the "map method" is. Also, asking me to "server name" and "corresponding site" confuses me yet again. Why is it assumed I know anything about servers? Is this product for common folk or just developers? All the tutorials seem to be talking to developers. Assume I know nothing about servers and start from there. If I've got to learn a bunch of stuff before I can get this product up and running, at least take me step by step through this mine field. Spoon feed me, I'm a baby, can't you tell?) Example: [SiteAccessSettings] MatchOrder=host HostMatchType=map HostMatchMapItems[]=domain1.net;www HostMatchMapItems[]=www.domain1.net;www HostMatchMapItems[]=admin.domain1.net;admin HostMatchMapItems[]=www.domain2.com;domain2 This means that http://domain1.net and http://www.domain1.net go to site www, the settings for which can be found in /settings/siteaccess/www/... (Sorry, but this is still Chinese Caligraphy to me. When you write "http://domain1.net and http:/www.domain1.net go to site www" what on earth does that mean? How do they get there, by airplane? ) The same goes for the other specs. Other than that, take a look at the how-tos in the community contributed docs. If you learn to do it, writing your own how-to would be really appreciated. (There's a science to writing technical instructions and someone with EZ needs to learn it. These tutorials and "how-tos" are all over the place and none of them have helped me get up and running at all. I'm still looking at screen that says "object not available' whenever I try to do anything. In short, your product seems to be a great product for developers, anybody else should have lots and lots of time on his hand if he wants to learn how to use it. Ric Regards, Karsten P.S.: to learn how to post an article, you do not need to learn setting up siteaccess. Just install the demo data and start from there.
Karsten Jennissen	Wednesday 30 April 2003 8:19:33 am Hi Ric, my response, as you said, first things first. :-) I didn't know that your installation wasn't running in the first place. "I'm still looking at screen that says "object not available' whenever I try to do anything" Now what did you do to install. Could you please list the exact steps? Did it work right after installation? "In short, your product seems to be a great product for developers, anybody else should have lots and lots of time on his hand if he wants to learn how to use it." That is somewhat true. Ez publish was never a product for someone without any PHP or CMS knowledge. Is this the first CMS you try? The problem with the current version of this product is that it it still has some bugs and consumes a lot of memory on your server. You might not get it to work at all, if you are on a shared hosting plan. The inital few times you call up pages, ez publish uses a peak amount of memory to create some files and this can cause weird error messages (like page not found). The object not found really sounds like a siteaccess misonfiguration, however in the standard install, this shouldn't happen (unless you changed settings). After we have cleared this, we can go to the other questions. :-) Btw. I am not affiliated with ez systems, so it ain't my product (am just a user). Karsten
Tony Wood	Wednesday 30 April 2003 8:51:20 am Ric, It seems your first impressions of eZ publish are a little frustrating. Maybe if you'd allow me I could suggest a learning map. 1. Use the online demos, add content, remove content, edit content. Bascailly get a feel for the user side of the product. 2. Download and install the eZ installer and do the same on your local machine. This will ensure it all works for you. 3. Back up. So you can get back to this point again should you get a problem. 4. Plan what you want to do. 5. Do each step of your plan and build on knowledge gained. If this is teaching you to suck eggs I apologies. Internet content management is not simply point and click, and if you are then to put a site on the internet, you should understand about what secuirty issues or problem that might come along. Now if you are running for an intranet for just you or your company then you can use the default setup from eZ and just remove some of the templates or page and you are onto a winner. I hope this helps. Tony Tony Wood : twitter.com/tonywood Vision with Technology Experts in eZ Publish consulting & development Power to the Editor! Free eZ Training : http://www.VisionWT.com/training eZ Future Podcast : http://www.VisionWT.com/eZ-Future
Ric Landers	Wednesday 30 April 2003 9:51:03 am Thanks guys for your suggestions, but let's do it this way and if we write an effective tutorial in the process that'll be great. Okay, I've installed EZ 3 and am now looking at the demo. Everything seems to be fine. Each module appears to be working. I'm impressed. Now, at this point all I want to do is play with these modules without apprending files. I'd like to write an article, post it in the news module and see it. I'd like to then edit that article. Then I'd like to play with the fomatting of the news page. When I finish with this, I'd like to call an friend and have her visit the page. Here too, it would be nice if I didn't have to apprend any of the files first to do this. Remember, I'm just testing the product, I'm not committed to it yet. After my friend visits it, I'd like to tell her to submit an article. Now, this is all I want to do the first day I install this app. The magic number is "3" here. Whatever I have to do to get this done, keep it to 3 steps, if it's more than that I'm working and I don't want to work this soon. So, if I complete these tasks successfully I'm impressed and encouraged to try other things, perhaps things that take a higher learning curve. For example: I've yet figured out how to test php scripts with this product. What interface do I use? How do I access it? There's entirely nothing anywhere I've yet seen that discusses this. The bottom line is, I feel I've been handed the keys to a wonderful automobile, but not told how to drive it. Explaining internal combustion to me doesn't help. I want a step by step tutorial that tells me where to put the key -- and why ; what the steering wheel is for, etc. Ric PS: The install went error free. I got the demo screen, played with some of the modules than closed the app. When I started it again the demo was gone. Also, when I went to the Admin program and tried to access the default articles I got the "Object unavailable" message. In fact, I'm a little confused about what interface I should be getting when I select an article in Admin anyway. I understand there's an editor for sale, but I'm certainly not ready for that yet. So what's the default editor and why aren't I getting it when I select an article to edit or view?
Joel Finkel	Monday 12 May 2003 5:27:59 pm As a developer who has worked with users for almost 20 years, and who has been struggling to install this product (admittedly on a IIS server, which is not truly supported), I want to commend Ric for his patience. Everything you are saying resonates with me. I also commend the developers of this product, who have obviously put a lot of thought and hard work into it. I recommend they listen carefuly to what Ric is saying, because the documentation is quite deadful. Documentation is one of the most important facets of a product. It cannot be left up to the user community to develop. It must be written by professionals who work closely with the developers, preferably from the early stages of the project. 20 years ago, when I went looking for a job, I sent a resume to Digital Equipment Corporation, primarily because their documentation was utterly spectacular. It was obvious that they thought highly enough of their products to document them well. From all indications, eZ Publish it set to be a fine product. It deserves equally fine documentation. This should not be an afterthought. It should be a commitment. Regards, Joel Finkel
Lambert Swartout	Saturday 07 June 2003 11:44:10 pm Pretty Simply I think.... If you want help.... BUY the program... in the meantime we are all getting to use the BEST Open source Solution out there. I was a total idiot when I started with servers, forum software etc etc.... a year later I'm a half-wit and very happy to finally BE one. ALSO, there are LOTs of BLOG type article progs out there that Hold your hand.... EZ Publish is a rocket ship framework.... You can do TONS with it beyond what it APPEARS to be... Conversely there are TONS of PostNuke type things out there with MASSIVE forums that give the impression that you could get up and running Smmoothllly..... um..... there's always 3D programs for when we'd like to remind ourselves, for example, that we get back what we put IN. Best wishes to ALL, truly. Lam