License Issues

Tuesday 31 August 2004 4:26:24 am

Hello,

If I want to install eZpublish on a live server to host clients' web sites and on another server for development and want to custom brand the admin interface how many licenses do I have to purchase? Will one license cover all clients on the live server and do I need one for the development server? Also what about OE?

eZ Team (or anyone else) - Can you help on this? It is unclear in the product pages.

Ed.

Tuesday 31 August 2004 6:08:05 am

Thanks for the reply. I need a little more clarification.

I plan to develop sites, extensions etc for clients and host them on my servers (ie not release the source code - unless the client asks for it). I do want to rebrand. Is the license per developer or per site for eZpublish?

Ed.

Tuesday 31 August 2004 7:42:16 am

This is an issue that I'm tinkering with a long time now. If I take a gpl'ed-program, extend it and put it on my server where only I and my customers can see the source (and binary), and the user can only see the html it outputs - isn't it possible in such a situation to just do not distribute the code?

I mean, the gpl says, _if_ you are distributing binary, _then_ you have to distribute source either. _but_ when this software runs on only my own server, can we speak of me _distributing_ the software? I don't really think so, and as a result, it _might_ be possible to just take ezp, extend it, just run that for your customers and that's it.

That would indeed not be very good for the community, but I think it's legal. Please feel free to disprove me, as I don't really like this kind of interpretation of the gpl.

Greetings, Lukas

Tuesday 31 August 2004 7:48:10 am

Does anyone have an answer to this? Is this allowed regarding the licence-text?

Tuesday 31 August 2004 10:36:34 am

We are following a simple rule with the dual licence, giving you two choices:

1) GPL : If you are open source we are.
2) Pro: If you are not open source we are not.

This gives you more options that if eZ publish just was GPL.

Generally if you just use the software for yourself, or what you distribute is distributed as free open source software then you can use the GPL.

A distribution is both if you install the software on a server at your place at a third party host or at the customer. Following the rule "by the book" internal distribution in one organization is also actually defined as distributing the software.

So to sum up if you set up and sell solutions with eZ publish, no matter where you host them you would need a Pro licence.

Wednesday 01 September 2004 1:42:44 am

The license for eZ publish pro is pr eZ publish installation.

--bård

Documentation: http://ez.no/doc

Wednesday 01 September 2004 2:32:49 am

I see a lot of talk about just how you can use eZ publish under the GNU GPL all the time.

I see a lot of people who seem to not understand the large amount of freedom that the GNU GPL provides. The following are all examples of using eZ publish with the GNU GPL Licence not the eZ publish Professional Licence.

<b>Distribution</b>:
I may install eZ publish on a production server that is available to the world.
I may install eZ publish on an internal server that is not available to the world.
I may do both and it is not considered distribution unless give the software to another party. In which case you should also make your source code available to the community to comply with the GNU GPL.

<b>Personal Website: </b>

Running eZ publish on a web server does not count as distribution of the source code or binary of the source code. It not like distributing a binary as a person can not use the application without the server. The question turns towards the fact that the difference between me using eZ publish on a world accessible production server for my needs and the world simply being able to use my "installation" of eZ publish, which doesn't mean I'm distributing the application.

<b>Distributing an eZ publish Web site:</b>

Now lets say I take my personal website which has been configured to run effectively and meets my needs and make a copy of that eZ publish installation. That copy is allowed under the GPL.

Now lets say I take that copy and re configure it to run as a web site for a small corporation, government organization or organization.

I may <i>not</i> sell the web site as a product under the terms of the gnu gpl.

To sell an eZ publish site as a product . . you must have an eZ publish professional licence per eZ publish installation. I don't know if you can transfer your eZ publish professional licence to the client during the sale, I don't think you can, I think the client has to buy their own eZ publish professional licence.I'm not sure if you and your client <i>must</i> both own an eZ publish professional licence.

<b>Instead</b> of selling the web site as a <i>product</i>, I opt to <i>sell my time</i> as a web developer to design, build, configure and install eZ publish on behalf of the client.

I can make all the money I want, If I sell my <i>services</i> to the client not eZ publish products. I have this idea that the real money is in selling services and support rather than products, an Idea seems to be a very popular idea in the Free Software / Open Source Software (F/OSS) Community.

I build the client's web site / application using eZ publish (internally), test, prepare a public beta of the application for the client to review (external). Take client feedback and make any necessary revisions and repeat the beta process, once the application is approved by the client, I get <b>paid</b>. Pending payment for services rendered, their custom eZ publish application goes to their production server and is prepared to go live.

Clients always change their mind and want more than they originally asked for, you can plan to meet their needs long term or accept a list of never ending changes. If you value your time, limit the client's ability to request additional changes, write a scope of work document that the client must agree to before primary development begins.

Now lets say you want to keep the client long term, the best way to do this is to plan, stick to you guns and your plans. Clients want to turn you inside out if you let them, above all satisfy the client. Sometimes this may not be enough to keep a client. You can do several other things to help keep the client, like rebranding . . .

<b>Re Branding</b>:
I may rebrand eZ publish on a production server that is available to the world.
I may rebrand eZ publish on an internal server that is not available to the world.

You might read this and think I'm completely wrong. I assure you I am not.

Under the terms of the GNU GPL anyone may rebrand a package as they see fit with one very important clause that allows rebranding of any software licensed under the GNU GPL. The clause is this, you must provide to the user a way to view the credits of the application.

There are many ways to provide the credits of a web applications.
1) Have the text at the bottom or side of the page (less professional looking)
2) Provide a menu link (could be a sub menu link of the an about menu category) to a credits page.

I first credit my company for creating the custom web application, second I credit eZ systems and eZ publish vX.X.x (v2.2, v2.3, 3.4.1) as the original author of the base package (i don't have say it is rebranded, just state the facts honestly). Third I assign copyright / copylefts regarding the content of the website (text, images, site design), and address any other content ownership issues like " All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-2004 The Firm "

Example:

(credits page)
Design Copyright 

theapplication.example.com
Content & Visual Design © 2004 
TheFirm All Rights Reserved. 
Web Application is free software released under the GNU/GPL 

Application Source Code Copyleft 

xPublish 
4th Generation Web Application & Content Management System 
Version : 2.x.7 
Brookins Consulting 

Work based on the Program eZ Publish 2.2.x 
Copyright (C) 2000 eZ systems 

GNU General Public License  (Link to GPL Licence Text)

(All Pages Footer)
Content & Visual Design © 2003 - 2004 
The Firm All Rights Reserved.
Web Application released under the GNU/GPL (Link to Credits Page)

You need to know and follow the terms of the GPL, yet the terms are very loose when talking about just how you can full fill on the terms of the GPL, which gives people the freedom to be creative when creating your own implementations and solutions.

<b>Distribution of the Application</b>
When you setup the application on the client's production server you can do so in several ways.

<b>Work smarter, not harder -- Scrooge McDuck</b>
I suggest other people become smarter than their peers, imagine the smartest person you have never met, and do what that person would do. With enough reading you can learn to do anything, usually it will also be legal if you build a strong background in the subject before acting rash.

<b>Encode the Production Server's installation of the php code</b>
If I was really interested in keeping a client what would I do? Install and test the application, encrypt the application using Zend.com's Encoder, which prevents the client from modifying the source code directly. (Ok with the GPL as that essentially creates a binary of the application).

<b>Encryption of Source Code</b>
If you encode the source code (php only I think) you <b>must</b> provide the source code to the application to the client, but that doesn't mean you have to make it easy to get to the source code. Build a source code cd that contains the full source code and sql of the eZ publish application encrypted using GPG with a readable plain text file and any other data / information required to decrypt the source code to human readable form. Build a MD5 Hash of the encrypted pacakge to tell if the package has been tampered, all of the above is in the interest of the client's application security ;)

I've never done the above yet . . . as it seems dirty but then I would do the above rather than buy an eZ publish Professional Licence. I'd rather buy eZ systems support time than buy an eZ publish Professional Licence.

<b>Distribution of Source Code</b>
This can be a grey area depending on just how your creating your solution.

But it boils down to this, it goes against "The Spirit of the GNU GPL" Licence to withhold useful improvements, modifications of GPL Software from the community. If you think that kracker withholds his changes from the community then you don't know that I started http://ezcommunity.net/ to release all 3 years of my source code improvements and modules back into eZ publish, I am the primary contributor to http://ezpub.co.uk/ as well. This is the path I have chosen as a Free Software Developer, question my intentions.

Be creative, be innovative, don't be afraid to do something new and unique, just ask if what your planning on doing is allowed by the GPL, if it is allowed, just do it!

<b>Who's Interest are you going to pay out to?</b>

Is it any wonder that people ask about what is allowed with software package licensed under the gpl when eZ systems has substantial financial Interest in selling eZ publish Professional Licences?

What sunrises me is that users / developers would actually ask a GNU GPL Licence question in the ez.no forums instead of a mailing list or forum dedicated to free software / GNU GPL Licence questions.

Go find an unbiased answer on the rights of a GNU GPL Licence you don't need eZ systems to tell you about the GPL cause it's not in their interest to explain the GNU GPL to you, <i>it's in eZ systems interest to only mention the parts of what is allowed in a way that increases sales of eZ systems Professional Licences</i>. <b> I'm not nocking eZ systems, they have to make a profit</b>, that doesn't mean you have to pay them for right's you probably don't want or need while using eZ publish to develop custom solutions and applications.

<b>The BIG Question</b>

Ask yourself these key questions:

- Do you need to sell your eZ publish application as a product?
- Do you need to sell your eZ publish application without any credit to eZ systems as the creator of eZ publish?

If you don't need these rights, you may in 95% of the time not need an eZ publish Professional Licence.

If you feel determined to contribute to eZ systems financially I suggest you buy support, you'll get more mileage for your money.

<b>Theme</b>

kracker's eZ publish Development Theme Song: Aesop Rock : Easy
(Find the song and you might understand just why, IF you even give it a chance)

Fearing the eventual backlash from telling the truth can't seem to keep me from firing first with subliminal entropy . . . Aesop Rock, Vast Aire, Yeshua Dapoed : Sinister

While the back of my mind reminds me that subliminals don't work . . . . or was that reverse physiology ?

//kracker
preparing for the temperature of my own nuclear winter . . .
if you don't <i>care</i> to understand after all of this then you may never . . . .
Aesop Rock : Labor

References:

GNU GPL:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.html#GPL
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/pragmatic.html
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html
http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLRequireSourcePostedPublic
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#CanIDemandACopy
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#WhatDoesWrittenOfferValid
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowDownloadFee

http://www.free-soft.org/gpl_history/

GPL Compliance for Software Developers:
http://www.foo.be/rmll2004/legal/DavidTurner/outline.html
http://www.foo.be/rmll2004/legal/DavidTurner/slide-15.html
http://www.foo.be/rmll2004/legal/DavidTurner/slide-16.html#top

Derivative Works:
http://zgp.org/linux-elitists/[email protected]
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html#SEC3

Rename / Rebranding :
http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2004/04/msg00433.html

You can rebrand and rename GPL Software, you need to give credit where credit is due. You can not claim the product as your own creation as if you wrote the entire software on your own.

Thousands of GNU GPL sofftware packages have come from existing packages in part or a near verbatim copy. Just look at all the PHP Nuke Clones available on the net, many developers have rebranded / forked the original phpNuke project's source code (licence under the GNU GPL) to create:
http://www.nukecops.com/article65.html
http://phpnuke.org/modules.php?name=PHP-Nuke_HOWTO
http://phpnuke.org/modules.php?name=PHP-Nuke_HOWTO&page=history.html
http://phpnuke.org/modules.php?name=PHP-Nuke_HOWTO&page=communities.html
http://phpnuke.org/modules.php?name=PHP-Nuke_HOWTO&page=php-nuke-forks.html

I talked a little about this (much more brief) at the eZ Pub Forum:
http://forum.ezpub.co.uk/showthread.php?p=299#post299

http://www.google.com/search?num=30&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=GNU+GPL%2C+What+is+Allowed&btnG=Search

http://www.google.com/search?num=30&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&safe=off&q=GPL,+Derivative+works&spell=1

http://zend.com/store/products/zend-encoder.php

eZ publish Professionsal Licence:
http://ez.no/content/view/full/130
http://ez.no/products/ez_publish_pro/increase_your_business_opportunities_with_ez_publish_pro

Member since: 2001.07.13 || http://ezpedia.se7enx.com/

Wednesday 01 September 2004 3:28:04 am

Ed,

> kracker, to me this seems like trying to exploit loop holes.

Questioning my intentions?

Claiming that using the freedoms provided by the GNU GPL, Free Software Foundation, GNU Project that are used in this way by every other GNU GPL Licensed software project on the entire planet is <b>not</b> exploiting loopholes, its using the freedoms that are legally accepted and allowed by the GNU GPL Licence.

How long have you been developing, maintaining, selling GNU GPL / Free Software?
How long have you been developing, maintaining, selling eZ publish solutions?

> I have no problem with paying a fair price for software if it cuts my development time 
and helps to fund future development of the project.  

After all if no one paid for a professional license I am sure 
eZpublish would not be such a stable or well structured project. 

Whether you use the GNU GPL Licence or the eZ publish Professional Licence, you use the same source code. Paying for software does not guaranteed that it is more bug free, they both use the same source code as the free software version.

I think once you start your project you'll find out all to quickly just how much more beneficial paying for eZ systems services is than paying for rights you don't use will be. I can't say that I admire your altruism, it's misplaced.

Buying an eZ publish Pro Licence just to say that you contributed financially is in my opinion misguided. Instead I would recommend that others buy $1,000 - 3,000 in eZ systems support / consulting time, I know you'll get more out of paying for answer than giving your money away and coming back to these forums to ask others for answers.

> After all if no one paid for a professional license I am sure 
eZpublish would not be such a stable or well structured project. 

I think eZ systems would not be in business if they were not committed to making money. Why not let them worry about their profit margin and stick to the licence issues at hand. I assure you they will make money no matter what any "one" of us decides to do with eZ publish.

> I think eZ's model combines the best of the open source world with the commercial. 
It is great to have access to the source code to modify and rebrand if necessary but 
at the same time it is reassuring to feel that it is backed by a profitable company. 

eZ publish was first released under the GNU GPL long before it was released under the eZ publish Pro Licence.

I love your last sentence ;) It's great, you make my point for me. The real money in the industry is supporting a users habit, not the initial or first sale.

This is about what is legal, right and perfectly acceptable under the terms of the GNU GPL.
These are not loopholes, these are freedoms and they're legal !
This is about buying eZ systems consulting / support services instead of throwing your money away on a license you don't really need if you understood / understand what free software is and how to leverage it in your favor while still supporting eZ systems for continuing to develop and support all things eZ publish.

I assert you don't have the background required to intelligently tell me I'm abusing the freedoms provided by GPL ;) Live and learn . . . .

Time will tell . . .
--kracker

Kid Rock : Cocky : I (may be) Wrong But You Ain't Right
Aesop Rock : 9-5ers Anthem
Aesop Rock : One Brick (f. Illogic)

Member since: 2001.07.13 || http://ezpedia.se7enx.com/

Wednesday 01 September 2004 4:22:47 am

> kracker, you are a bit too sensitive. I wasn't trying to attack anyone 

Call me a bleeding heart, I am very passionate about free software, the GNU GPL, and all things eZ publish.

What you consider sensitivity, I know to be intensity . . . . I am very very intense, I am the edge.
But that said I'm such a nice guy, a little too nice in real life :) so lets just read my posts, grin and all together say : "There goes kracker again . . . what a character!" Then just wonder what fuels this analytical engine . . .

I know your new, It was not my intention to explode on you, These licence issue was an issue that had been building in the back of my mind for well over 2 months that I felt compelled to address in a future article. This thread just happened to get the writing started :)

>What is counted as distribution, to me this is a grey area?

Transmitting the source code to another person, group, organization or entity is (in my opinion) considered distribution.

If your working for a company to build the company web site then I doubt you would be distributing as your not giving the code to another party only using it.

If you work as for a company as say an hourly consultant, I think this is a grey area, are you simply doing the work for the company, does this case fall under the above logic? I'm not sure. I always favor the safe side and choose to release my modifications and improvements than horde my source code from the community.

>I am afraid I am not terribly interested in the open source / closed source debate. I look for solutions that match my need at reasonable cost.

This wasn't really about you Ed, it was about dispelling common misconceptions of what your allowed to do with eZ publish & the GNU GPL. It's sad to see people who praise free software but don't care to understand free software and it's roots, where it came from, why it came about, what it all means to the community, to you individually. You don't have to understand it all but putting your head in the sand because your afraid of the freedom provided by the gnu gpl is disappointing, your the one who misses out in the community part of free software.

Good Luck with your work . . .

Aesop Rock : No Regrets
Queen of the Damned: Jonathan Davis :Forsaken
The Queen Of The Damned : Satans Night Out : Redeemer

Those who do not understand history are doomed to repeat it . . . (or)
He who does not learn from history is doomed to repeat it.

Member since: 2001.07.13 || http://ezpedia.se7enx.com/

Tuesday 18 January 2005 4:42:49 pm

Does the GPL allow me to sell copies of the program for money?
Yes, the GPL allows everyone to do this. The right to sell copies is part of the definition of free software. Except in one special situation, there is no limit on what price you can charge. (The one exception is the required written offer to provide source code that must accompany binary-only release.)

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